<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Smoking, stalking and unintended consequences</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.bigmouthstrikesagain.com/archives/1120/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.bigmouthstrikesagain.com/archives/1120</link>
	<description>Freelance writer Gary Marshall on technology, music, Macs and more</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 15:25:25 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://www.bigmouthstrikesagain.com/archives/1120/comment-page-1#comment-4962</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 08:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bigmouthstrikesagain.com/archives/1120#comment-4962</guid>
		<description>Tables and awnings for smokers are the exception, believe me - especially in Glasgow where the council stymied most applications for external areas. I know I&#039;ve said it before, but the best example of non-smoking pubs I&#039;ve seen to date was in Galway, where the non-smoking pub I was in had the inspired idea of simply taking the roof off one room and sticking heaters, horse brasses and bar stools in the resulting open air room. Brilliant.

One of the things that&#039;s become obvious over here, incidentally, is that pubs&#039; initial enthusiasm for being nice to smokers wanes quickly. Pubs that do have awnings to stop smokers getting soaked don&#039;t bother to put them out when it rains, and the ones with external heaters don&#039;t switch &#039;em on when it&#039;s bloody freezing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tables and awnings for smokers are the exception, believe me &#8211; especially in Glasgow where the council stymied most applications for external areas. I know I&#8217;ve said it before, but the best example of non-smoking pubs I&#8217;ve seen to date was in Galway, where the non-smoking pub I was in had the inspired idea of simply taking the roof off one room and sticking heaters, horse brasses and bar stools in the resulting open air room. Brilliant.</p>
<p>One of the things that&#8217;s become obvious over here, incidentally, is that pubs&#8217; initial enthusiasm for being nice to smokers wanes quickly. Pubs that do have awnings to stop smokers getting soaked don&#8217;t bother to put them out when it rains, and the ones with external heaters don&#8217;t switch &#8216;em on when it&#8217;s bloody freezing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.bigmouthstrikesagain.com/archives/1120/comment-page-1#comment-4960</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 21:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bigmouthstrikesagain.com/archives/1120#comment-4960</guid>
		<description>No-smoking pubs: The Old Bull &amp; Bush in Hampstead went voluntarily no-smoking a year or two ago, when it went all upmarket (flock wallpaper and sandblasted mirrors) and foodie. Absolutely ruined a very nice old pub. I never go there now. But it seems to do well.

Separation of smoking and no-smoking: The Old White Lion in East Finchley has two wings, one smoking, one not, and the bar in the middle (no smoking at the bar). Absolutely no problem for non-smokers.

Of course come June they&#039;re all going to be forced down one route, and then it&#039;ll be like wot I saw in Glasgow last August: pathetic clumps of tables awkwardly perched on the pavement, for the smokers. Ah well, at least the Spaniard&#039;s Inn has a huge outdoor area, so summer will still be nice...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No-smoking pubs: The Old Bull &amp; Bush in Hampstead went voluntarily no-smoking a year or two ago, when it went all upmarket (flock wallpaper and sandblasted mirrors) and foodie. Absolutely ruined a very nice old pub. I never go there now. But it seems to do well.</p>
<p>Separation of smoking and no-smoking: The Old White Lion in East Finchley has two wings, one smoking, one not, and the bar in the middle (no smoking at the bar). Absolutely no problem for non-smokers.</p>
<p>Of course come June they&#8217;re all going to be forced down one route, and then it&#8217;ll be like wot I saw in Glasgow last August: pathetic clumps of tables awkwardly perched on the pavement, for the smokers. Ah well, at least the Spaniard&#8217;s Inn has a huge outdoor area, so summer will still be nice&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://www.bigmouthstrikesagain.com/archives/1120/comment-page-1#comment-4958</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 17:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bigmouthstrikesagain.com/archives/1120#comment-4958</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The bingo thing’s interesting. &lt;/i&gt;

They&#039;re not just suffering because of the smoking ban, mind you, although takings do seem to be down very dramatically since it came in. Online&#039;s squeezing them dramatically, and they&#039;re taxed more than other forms of gambling: in addition to gambling taxes, Bingo operators pay VAT. Casinos and bookies are zero rated for VAT, apparently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The bingo thing’s interesting. </i></p>
<p>They&#8217;re not just suffering because of the smoking ban, mind you, although takings do seem to be down very dramatically since it came in. Online&#8217;s squeezing them dramatically, and they&#8217;re taxed more than other forms of gambling: in addition to gambling taxes, Bingo operators pay VAT. Casinos and bookies are zero rated for VAT, apparently.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://www.bigmouthstrikesagain.com/archives/1120/comment-page-1#comment-4957</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 16:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bigmouthstrikesagain.com/archives/1120#comment-4957</guid>
		<description>I meant to post this earlier: you&#039;ve also got to be very suspicious of any figures used to justify moves on health grounds. For example, see if you can spot the difference between these two figures:

31,000
Number of people killed per year by obesity, according to the Health Development Agency and quoted by John Reid in various press releases, October 2003.

1,104
Number of people killed per year by obesity, according to the Department of Health. March 2005.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I meant to post this earlier: you&#8217;ve also got to be very suspicious of any figures used to justify moves on health grounds. For example, see if you can spot the difference between these two figures:</p>
<p>31,000<br />
Number of people killed per year by obesity, according to the Health Development Agency and quoted by John Reid in various press releases, October 2003.</p>
<p>1,104<br />
Number of people killed per year by obesity, according to the Department of Health. March 2005.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://www.bigmouthstrikesagain.com/archives/1120/comment-page-1#comment-4956</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 16:12:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bigmouthstrikesagain.com/archives/1120#comment-4956</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I think a large part of the problem has been that the legislation has been driven by&lt;/i&gt;

Oh, absolutely. Zealots, and of course it&#039;s always campaigning on the basis of &quot;well obviously people like us are smart enough to make the right choices, but what about the plebs?&quot; That&#039;s apparent in some of the ASH policy papers on things like lurid photo labelling, where there&#039;s an interesting combination of apparent concern and utter contempt. 

Naturally ASH scotland hasn&#039;t stopped with the smoking ban. They now want limits on where you can buy smokes and the times of day you can buy them, because their mission isn&#039;t to protect the innocents, but to protect *everybody* from the evils of smoking. That some people are quite happy to play russian roulette with their immune system just doesn&#039;t compute: it&#039;s simply not accepted as a valid point of view, even if the smoker gets their fix in a way that it can&#039;t affect anybody other than themselves. 

&lt;i&gt;I find that most people immediately start to see my point.&lt;/i&gt;

There&#039;s a very nasty puritan streak in some people that goes beyond their own health and into *your* health, whether it&#039;s tutting at a pregnant woman having a quick puff or demanding a blanket ban on anything poor people eat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I think a large part of the problem has been that the legislation has been driven by</i></p>
<p>Oh, absolutely. Zealots, and of course it&#8217;s always campaigning on the basis of &#8220;well obviously people like us are smart enough to make the right choices, but what about the plebs?&#8221; That&#8217;s apparent in some of the ASH policy papers on things like lurid photo labelling, where there&#8217;s an interesting combination of apparent concern and utter contempt. </p>
<p>Naturally ASH scotland hasn&#8217;t stopped with the smoking ban. They now want limits on where you can buy smokes and the times of day you can buy them, because their mission isn&#8217;t to protect the innocents, but to protect *everybody* from the evils of smoking. That some people are quite happy to play russian roulette with their immune system just doesn&#8217;t compute: it&#8217;s simply not accepted as a valid point of view, even if the smoker gets their fix in a way that it can&#8217;t affect anybody other than themselves. </p>
<p><i>I find that most people immediately start to see my point.</i></p>
<p>There&#8217;s a very nasty puritan streak in some people that goes beyond their own health and into *your* health, whether it&#8217;s tutting at a pregnant woman having a quick puff or demanding a blanket ban on anything poor people eat.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Squander Two</title>
		<link>http://www.bigmouthstrikesagain.com/archives/1120/comment-page-1#comment-4955</link>
		<dc:creator>Squander Two</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 15:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bigmouthstrikesagain.com/archives/1120#comment-4955</guid>
		<description>I thought that Wetherspoon&#039;s got it right: genuinely smoke-free no-smoking areas and no smoking at the bar.  I found them pleasant places to be.  I think a large part of the problem has been that the legislation has been driven by the type of people who stand just inside the no-smoking section, leaning towards the nearest smoker, just for the thrill of wrinkling their noses and saying &quot;Egad, what a foul smell!&quot;

&lt;i&gt;&gt; standing up for smokers’ rights is seen by a lot of people as morally equivalent to arguing the case for, say, child abuse.&lt;/i&gt;

I find it&#039;s very easy.  I say I&#039;m against the ban, even though I hate cigarette smoke and the ban will make the world a nicer place for me, because it&#039;s the thin end of the wedge.  Then pick one or two of the numerous illustrations that our government keep providing to us -- forcing chocolate manufacturers to stop making king-size bars, banning two-for-one deals on foods deemed by bureaucrats to contain too much fat, vetting pub menus for salt content as a condition of licensing, forbidding overweight people to adopt orphans.  I find that most people immediately start to see my point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought that Wetherspoon&#8217;s got it right: genuinely smoke-free no-smoking areas and no smoking at the bar.  I found them pleasant places to be.  I think a large part of the problem has been that the legislation has been driven by the type of people who stand just inside the no-smoking section, leaning towards the nearest smoker, just for the thrill of wrinkling their noses and saying &#8220;Egad, what a foul smell!&#8221;</p>
<p><i>&gt; standing up for smokers’ rights is seen by a lot of people as morally equivalent to arguing the case for, say, child abuse.</i></p>
<p>I find it&#8217;s very easy.  I say I&#8217;m against the ban, even though I hate cigarette smoke and the ban will make the world a nicer place for me, because it&#8217;s the thin end of the wedge.  Then pick one or two of the numerous illustrations that our government keep providing to us &#8212; forcing chocolate manufacturers to stop making king-size bars, banning two-for-one deals on foods deemed by bureaucrats to contain too much fat, vetting pub menus for salt content as a condition of licensing, forbidding overweight people to adopt orphans.  I find that most people immediately start to see my point.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tony Kiernan</title>
		<link>http://www.bigmouthstrikesagain.com/archives/1120/comment-page-1#comment-4954</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Kiernan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 14:16:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bigmouthstrikesagain.com/archives/1120#comment-4954</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t think that the Phoenix at Queen St is a good example.  Even when it was a lowly Costa coffee it was half empty all the time.  similarly with all the various chains it was in between.

The bingo thing&#039;s interesting.  Folk are staying at home to smoke, but at least they can afford to.  I wonder if there&#039;s some other branch of gambling (Gala online?) seeing a boost.  Or, have we just cut a swathe through one of the few vestiges of community still extant?  The smoking&#039;s still happening, but the socialising isn&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t think that the Phoenix at Queen St is a good example.  Even when it was a lowly Costa coffee it was half empty all the time.  similarly with all the various chains it was in between.</p>
<p>The bingo thing&#8217;s interesting.  Folk are staying at home to smoke, but at least they can afford to.  I wonder if there&#8217;s some other branch of gambling (Gala online?) seeing a boost.  Or, have we just cut a swathe through one of the few vestiges of community still extant?  The smoking&#8217;s still happening, but the socialising isn&#8217;t.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://www.bigmouthstrikesagain.com/archives/1120/comment-page-1#comment-4953</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 13:59:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bigmouthstrikesagain.com/archives/1120#comment-4953</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;If the majority of the public wanted non-smoking pubs, why were no canny entrepreneurs opening any?&lt;/i&gt;

There was one - at Queen Street Station - but any time I went past it it was half-empty, possibly because it was full of smug bastards. Heh.

The argument I&#039;ve heard is that non-smokers go to the smoking pubs because we smokers are bad-tempered sods who just ruin the night for everyone if we can&#039;t indulge. There&#039;s probably some truth in that. 

&lt;i&gt;My personal view is that pub owners should have been given a choice: either ban it completely OR allow smoking, but install air-filtration systems&lt;/i&gt;

Yeah, that was my view too. 

It&#039;s been a disaster for the bingo halls, btw.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>If the majority of the public wanted non-smoking pubs, why were no canny entrepreneurs opening any?</i></p>
<p>There was one &#8211; at Queen Street Station &#8211; but any time I went past it it was half-empty, possibly because it was full of smug bastards. Heh.</p>
<p>The argument I&#8217;ve heard is that non-smokers go to the smoking pubs because we smokers are bad-tempered sods who just ruin the night for everyone if we can&#8217;t indulge. There&#8217;s probably some truth in that. </p>
<p><i>My personal view is that pub owners should have been given a choice: either ban it completely OR allow smoking, but install air-filtration systems</i></p>
<p>Yeah, that was my view too. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s been a disaster for the bingo halls, btw.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: McGazz</title>
		<link>http://www.bigmouthstrikesagain.com/archives/1120/comment-page-1#comment-4952</link>
		<dc:creator>McGazz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 13:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bigmouthstrikesagain.com/archives/1120#comment-4952</guid>
		<description>Very interesting. I love smoking, me - but I&#039;m wary of getting involved in debates online, as standing up for smokers&#039; rights is seen by a lot of people as morally equivalent to arguing the case for, say, child abuse.

We&#039;re continually sold an unproblematised free market ideology, to the extent that an otherwise avaricious public tacitly accept low wages and poor job security in the name of economic &#039;realism&#039; - yet, no one has ever asked why &quot;the market&quot; failed to produce a solution. If the majority of the public wanted non-smoking pubs, why were no canny entrepreneurs opening any?

My personal view is that pub owners should have been given a choice: either ban it completely OR allow smoking, but install air-filtration systems and only employ staff who&#039;re prepared to work in a smoking environment (jobs in smoking pubs would enter the small category of jobs that unemployed people are allowed to turn down without it affecting their benefit).

My local (think &quot;Early Doors&quot;) is struggling as it is - I reckon it&#039;ll close when the ban comes in down here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting. I love smoking, me &#8211; but I&#8217;m wary of getting involved in debates online, as standing up for smokers&#8217; rights is seen by a lot of people as morally equivalent to arguing the case for, say, child abuse.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re continually sold an unproblematised free market ideology, to the extent that an otherwise avaricious public tacitly accept low wages and poor job security in the name of economic &#8216;realism&#8217; &#8211; yet, no one has ever asked why &#8220;the market&#8221; failed to produce a solution. If the majority of the public wanted non-smoking pubs, why were no canny entrepreneurs opening any?</p>
<p>My personal view is that pub owners should have been given a choice: either ban it completely OR allow smoking, but install air-filtration systems and only employ staff who&#8217;re prepared to work in a smoking environment (jobs in smoking pubs would enter the small category of jobs that unemployed people are allowed to turn down without it affecting their benefit).</p>
<p>My local (think &#8220;Early Doors&#8221;) is struggling as it is &#8211; I reckon it&#8217;ll close when the ban comes in down here.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

